Idea for the next Vault.

[Disturbedone0777]

Well I've seen two sets of "From the Vault" come out and both of them, while useful to some, haven't really proven to be useful for me at all. It's perfectly okay as I'm just now starting to toy around with extended and legacy. I got to thinking though what I might market as a company if I were to use a similar idea. Then I listened to show 68 and I think I've got it. The number one cards that are all way too over priced in my opinion, the cards that most players can't afford but most decks seem to feature, is the planeswalkers.

Now i have to admit I can understand the dilemma in my idea. Reprinting the entire planeswalkers set would cause a price drop in them that I'm guessing most people wouldn't be too happy about. But think about what it would do for the player community.

Most decks focus on having the planeswalker cards that they feature. Some are more powerful then others. Either way it's hard to fine one copy of any of them for less then $10. It's never made sense to me. Why should something so pivotal to decks be so expensive and difficult to get a hold of? Oh yeah because this is a business and they like making money. But what is they features a reprint with new art of the planeswalkers.

I would think fairly they could include the orignal Chandra, Jace, Ajani, Lilliana, and Garruk, but they could even toss in Elspeth, Tezzret, Sharken, Nico bolos, Nissa Revene, and Sorin. Just seems like it would be a logical pack to have at least for playing purposes. Alas I'm not a collector and I'm sure the idea of throwing more then one high-value card in the $100 collectors box like that would enrage some people. Especially ones that have traded to get what they needed or already spent the money.

This is just an idea, but what do you think?

[browncoat]

The next from the vault set is relics (sorry to crush your hopes). I doubt Wizards will ever print standard relevant cards in a vault set as they want you buying boosters not limited edition boxes that stores charge 3x the msrp for. They also want planeswalkers to be exciting so selling a boxed set where you are guaranteed to get them all is not in their interest.

Dragons had dragons in it, they sell themselves while not being too dangerous in tournaments (dragonstorm is not too prevalent, sorry dragonstorm fans). Exiled had a large number of relevant cards for legacy and extended but if you really wanted a few of the cards you can get them cheaper as singles (even in foil if you want). Neither of these wrecked the secondary market so were fine. From the Vault: Planeswalkers would get marked up insanely, which would anger players and affect how people get planeswalkers which wizards wants to supply as promo's or use as a way to sell boosters.

I think wizards need to print the vault sets in larger numbers to make them better. If they printed and distributed them like dueldecks they would be sold at or near msrp making them affordable. I also think they should contain playsets of cards as that would make them useful (though wizards would rather have me buy four sets so I doubt that will happen).

[Xanamir]

Dragonstorm forever! Woooooo!

Personally, I'd like to see a "From the Vault: Angels." And it doesn't need to be Walletslayer Angel, either; I think it would be cool to look at some of the older angels, some of which were pretty neat, like Voice of All, Platinum Angel and Razia, Boros Archangel. And maybe some of the appropriate themed cards, too, like Worship.

Either that, or From the Vault: Goats. Who can forget the awesomeness that was Mountain Goat? Or the terrifying and overpowered Zodiac Goat? It could even include Goatnapper, arguably the most efficient and effective counter to the Aggro Goats Deck.

Mmm, never mind. From the Vault: Goats would never work. It'd completely destroy the balance of every format. Standard and Extended just aren't ready for the powers of Goat. Ah well.

[sherretz]

(2010-05-28 19:55 PM)Disturbedone0777 Wrote:  It's never made sense to me. Why should something so pivotal to decks be so expensive and difficult to get a hold of?

You answered your own question. It has nothing to do with a money making venture. It's simply answering to demand. No one complained when 'goyfs were all over the place for a pittance. Everyone got pissed, though, when 'goyf showed up everywhere in Legacy and their price shot to $100. (or Dark Confidant/Dark Depths for that matter)

This is an eternal debate. It is the secondary market you have an issue with, not Wizards. Also, just because something isn't on the Reserved List doesn't automatically mean it will be reprinted down the line.

E: browncoat got the sentiment right regarding the decks.

[browncoat]

(2010-06-01 15:42 PM)sherretz Wrote:  

(2010-05-28 19:55 PM)Disturbedone0777 Wrote:  It's never made sense to me. Why should something so pivotal to decks be so expensive and difficult to get a hold of?

You answered your own question. It has nothing to do with a money making venture. It's simply answering to demand. No one complained when 'goyfs were all over the place for a pittance. Everyone got pissed, though, when 'goyf showed up everywhere in Legacy and their price shot to $100. (or Dark Confidant/Dark Depths for that matter)

This is an eternal debate. It is the secondary market you have an issue with, not Wizards. Also, just because something isn't on the Reserved List doesn't automatically mean it will be reprinted down the line.

The problem with planeswalkers is that they were not pivotal to decks for a while. It is only in the wake of the wretched Alara block that they have become powerful, not to mention Jace 2.0 and Gideon being the only cards in their respective sets to be actually worth anything. While this in not the point of the thread the value of cards has become a major issue with the value of cards being put entirely into a few power mythics as opposed to having a number of $5-$10 dollar cards.

And as a note: of the cards you listed as examples goyf was initially underrated and was a bulk rare for a while and dark depths was complete garbage until hexmage was printed. Dark confidant is a card that I have never heard anyone whine about price though everyone knew from the beginning that it was awesome. While eternal formats have gotten prohibitively expensive to enter, that is not as big a problem when compared to the fact that standard can be difficult to get into with a $700 (it could be more now) deck that is now tier 1.

[sherretz]

I agree for the most part. Make sure you include Vengvine in the list of chase rares that has spiked recently.

I just chose some recent examples of cards off the top of my head. I don't have any experience with them.

While we're on this mild tangent, part of the allure of Jund was that it was a cheap deck to make. The engine of the deck rotates out when Scars shows up, so I'm curious if there will be a replacement.


I guess my point above was that it will be an eternally circular argument. Pivotal cards are expensive and in demand *because* they are pivotal.

[browncoat]

I'm not going to argue that pivotal cards have not been expensive, now the important cards are far more expensive than in the past and drive down the value of the rest of the cards in the set as more product is opened to get said card making trading up for a card nearly impossible.

I would not worry about scars yet, wizards can shake up the meta with m11.

[Alex]

I hope Scars will bring Affinity 2.0, i.e. a deck that's basically all commons with one or two uncommons and rares. Probably won't happen, but it'd be nice to be able to brew in Standard again without having to throw tons of cash at it.

Also, the FTV discussion reminded me of a joke that, the way Wizards is going, they would easily have enough cards for FTV: Cancel.