[Standard] 50 land

[browncoat]

Note: this deck is untested and currently just a concept in my head. Some of the decisions were made without much thought (I put in all the m10 lands I own, this explains the numbers on them).

2 terra eternal
4 explore
4 treasure hunt

4 creeping tar pit
4 dread sanctuary
4 raging ravine
4 quicksand
4 khalni garden
4 tectonic edge
4 halimar depths
4 teetering peak
2 rootbound crag
2 drowned catacomb
2 dragonskull summit
1 glacial fortress
1 sunpetal grove
2 forest
2 mountain
2 plains
2 swamp
2 island

sideboard:
2 terra eternal
4 bojuka bog
no idea on the rest

Any thoughts? The mana may have to be tweaked a bit. I am also unsure about using tri-lands but they may also fix the mana-base.

Edit: exploration now explore and glacial chasm now glacial fortress (Thanks for catching those Alex). I guess I just wanted to include some 43 land staples (sadly they are not in standard).

[jinsca]

(2010-02-01 22:18 PM)browncoat Wrote:  Note: this deck is untested and currently just a concept in my head. Some of the decisions were made without much thought (I put in all the m10 lands I own, this explains the numbers on them).

2 terra eternal
4 exploration
4 treasure hunt

4 creeping tar pit
4 dread sanctuary
4 raging ravine
4 quicksand
4 khalni garden
4 tectonic edge
4 halimar depths
4 teetering peak
2 rootbound crag
2 drowned catacomb
2 dragonskull summit
1 glacial chasm
1 sunpetal grove
2 forest
2 mountain
2 plains
2 swamp
2 island

sideboard:
2 terra eternal
4 bojuka bog
no idea on the rest

Any thoughts? The mana may have to be tweaked a bit. I am also unsure about using tri-lands but they may also fix the mana-base.

Interesting! I really think this deck is 100% playable. There's a guy at my local shop who is actually running this... he has enough of the man lands but is missing a few and needs to fine tune it once worldwake is officially out but it looks like a very solid deck.

He runs Ruin Ghosts along with Sejeri Steppe, to give his guys pro whatever color in response in case there is targeted removal or anything. He also runs Amulet of Vigor and 4 Day of Judgement.

It's pretty good when you Day all your opponents creatures then can swing in with a bunch of your man lands. I think he could do better with Chain Reaction though because then he can chain reaction and then in response use ruin ghost plus sejeri steppe to give one of his guys protection from red and save him.

Honestly, I think that the deck will be 100% playable in standard starting next week! Should be interesting to see if the deck becomes popular.

[browncoat]

I considered the ruin ghosts and the amulet but treasure hunt becomes less absurd. The main problem with the deck remains with either my version or other versions with additional cards: aggro decks stomp it to the ground. This is especially true with RDW as almost all of their creatures have trample and haste. The thing that I like about mine is that you are able to aggressively mulligan until you have a hand with either an explore or a treasure hunt and the lands to play it. Explore acts as a time walk (in the early game) and treasure hunt will refill your hand. I think it can do reasonably against jund as they don't start playing cards until turn 3 (generally). The control matchup (hopefully everyone will stay enamored with the new Jace) is fairly good as you may be able to sneak one of your two drops past counters, especially game 1.

Even if it is not the greatest, it amuses me (and confuses opponents). I plan on running this deck as penance for running jund in current standard.

[jinsca]

(2010-02-03 01:50 AM)browncoat Wrote:  I considered the ruin ghosts and the amulet but treasure hunt becomes less absurd. The main problem with the deck remains with either my version or other versions with additional cards: aggro decks stomp it to the ground. This is especially true with RDW as almost all of their creatures have trample and haste. The thing that I like about mine is that you are able to aggressively mulligan until you have a hand with either an explore or a treasure hunt and the lands to play it. Explore acts as a time walk (in the early game) and treasure hunt will refill your hand. I think it can do reasonably against jund as they don't start playing cards until turn 3 (generally). The control matchup (hopefully everyone will stay enamored with the new Jace) is fairly good as you may be able to sneak one of your two drops past counters, especially game 1.

Even if it is not the greatest, it amuses me (and confuses opponents). I plan on running this deck as penance for running jund in current standard.

Ok so the guy I was talking about at the shop is running 30 lands only. He's running 4 of each man land and 2 of each basic. His non lands are:

Day of judgment
Treasure Hunt
Explore
Walking Atlas
Amulet of Vigor
Chain Reaction (I think)
Volcanic Fallout
Terra Eternal

He's still getting the last of the cards but he played with a proxy version for fun against some people at the shop and was winning consistently.

[sherretz]

What about adding some Zendikons? If anything, it's a way to get some manlands (and provide protection for your basics) without having to activate them.

[browncoat]

(2010-02-25 22:46 PM)sherretz Wrote:  What about adding some Zendikons? If anything, it's a way to get some manlands (and provide protection for your basics) without having to activate them.

In my deck (I can't speak for the guy in Jinsca's shop) they dilute the nonland cards and are not that good. My concept revolves around using treasure hunt to draw obscene numbers of cards and will always hit another hunt for more draw, an explore to play more land or terra eternal for finishing the game. The zendikons are far less useful as they are a creature that I cannot protect from removal as easily (non-activated manlands make most of their removal dead cards in hand).

I will also note that they can enchant any land not just basics. That is why wind zendikon is scary on wasteland.

[Guiadan]

My buddies and I actually thought about this list on our way back from StarCity's 5k last night. We came up with this:

4 Bloodbraid Elf

4 Rest for the Weary
4 Treasure Hunt
2 Day of Judgment
4 Ardent Plea
1 Terra Eternal
1 Finest Hour

4 Raging Ravine
4 Stirring Wildwood
4 Celestial Colonnade
4 Khalni Garden
4 Halimar Depths
4 Rupture Spire (Exotic Orchard?)
3 Jungle Shrine
3 Seaside Citadel
4 Tectonic Edge
4 Quicksand
2 Reliquary Tower

Sideboard:
2 Terra Eternal
4 Spreading Seas
2 Day of Judgment
3 Chain Reaction
4 ???

[browncoat]

Any particular reason for including the rest for the weary? It seems to just mess up your cascades. Cascade is a fun mechanic for a land heavy deck like Swans combo. But your deck seems to not have any definite cascade card except wanting to hit treasure hunt. I think for the spells you would want your spells to look like this:

4 bloodbraid elf
4 violent outburst
4 ardent plea
4 treasure hunt

This lets you always hit a treasure hunt or a cascade spell that hits treasure hunt every time you cascade. Then you can fit in a few copies a utility lands that can easily be drawn into. I would then put the wrath 2.0 and the terra eternal in the sideboard. The chain reactions should be unneeded as extra mass removal.

[Guiadan]

(2010-03-15 20:14 PM)browncoat Wrote:  Any particular reason for including the rest for the weary? It seems to just mess up your cascades. Cascade is a fun mechanic for a land heavy deck like Swans combo. But your deck seems to not have any definite cascade card except wanting to hit treasure hunt. I think for the spells you would want your spells to look like this:

4 bloodbraid elf
4 violent outburst
4 ardent plea
4 treasure hunt

This lets you always hit a treasure hunt or a cascade spell that hits treasure hunt every time you cascade. Then you can fit in a few copies a utility lands that can easily be drawn into. I would then put the wrath 2.0 and the terra eternal in the sideboard. The chain reactions should be unneeded as extra mass removal.

Yeah I was worried about the mono red and the Jund matchups, so hitting Rest or Treasure Hunt is fine by me. We cut explore because it's good for the deck, but the other cascade targets are just better.
The deck should beat U/W hands down, and have a decent shot against Naya/Bant (with the wraths). 7 wraths is good because the deck can deal with a few big guys, but not a lot of swarm (Naya, Bant, WW).

[jinsca]

I have a quick question... you cascade into treasure hunt 100% of the time assuming you make the changes. Then, with a bunch of cards exiled temporarily from the cascade effect you cast treasure hunt for free and draw a bunch more cards and then the elf would resolve and you'd put the mass of exiled cards back onto the bottom of your library right? I think this is how this would work correct?

And yeah the idea of a cascade spell or 2 that will always hit a treasure hunt seems nice. Basically 8-12 copies in the deck, not to mention the added bonuses from the spells!

[browncoat]

(2010-03-15 22:52 PM)Guiadan Wrote:  Yeah I was worried about the mono red and the Jund matchups, so hitting Rest or Treasure Hunt is fine by me. We cut explore because it's good for the deck, but the other cascade targets are just better.
The deck should beat U/W hands down, and have a decent shot against Naya/Bant (with the wraths). 7 wraths is good because the deck can deal with a few big guys, but not a lot of swarm (Naya, Bant, WW).

The main problem with chain reaction is that you have few sources of red mana and getting RR may be too difficult. You may want some basic lands just to avoid having to stall even longer to untap your cipt lands. I think you should be worried less about swarm decks and worry more about aggro matchups. RDW is a problem as you noted, I don't think you can do much about that except use bajuka bog to get rid of unearth cards and hope that they draw poorly. Naya, Jund, and Bant are all fairly slow and should let you get at least partially set up so you should stand a chance. Mass removal can help but a good player will notice you are not running creatures and will hold back something to survive a wrath.

(2010-03-15 23:36 PM)jinsca Wrote:  I have a quick question... you cascade into treasure hunt 100% of the time assuming you make the changes. Then, with a bunch of cards exiled temporarily from the cascade effect you cast treasure hunt for free and draw a bunch more cards and then the elf would resolve and you'd put the mass of exiled cards back onto the bottom of your library right? I think this is how this would work correct?

That order seems right. You do get to stack the cascaded cards though to better facilitate a treasure hunt later though.

[jinsca]

I'm pretty sure that cascade puts them on the bottom in a random order.... so not AS good but still fine.

[browncoat]

(2010-03-16 01:04 AM)jinsca Wrote:  I'm pretty sure that cascade puts them on the bottom in a random order.... so not AS good but still fine.

My memory is failing, it is random order. I thought that it was in any order. Though I suppose that would allow for some potentially broken interactions.

[Guiadan]

(2010-03-15 23:45 PM)browncoat Wrote:  The main problem with chain reaction is that you have few sources of red mana and getting RR may be too difficult. You may want some basic lands just to avoid having to stall even longer to untap your cipt lands. I think you should be worried less about swarm decks and worry more about aggro matchups. RDW is a problem as you noted, I don't think you can do much about that except use bajuka bog to get rid of unearth cards and hope that they draw poorly. Naya, Jund, and Bant are all fairly slow and should let you get at least partially set up so you should stand a chance. Mass removal can help but a good player will notice you are not running creatures and will hold back something to survive a wrath.

I've got 11 red sources if I run rupture spires instead of exotic orchards, plus treasure hunts and regular draws. I don't think RR will be a problem. By swarm decks I meant aggro metchups, sorry. Bajuka bog is definitely a card I didn't think to use against RDW, but I don't use black or have space for it in the manabase. I think the better bet is just gaining life. Generally if you gain 16 against red, you win.
I'm not sure what Naya and Bant lists you're playing against, but they tend to drop Baneslayers turn 4. I wouldn't call that slow, personally.
Jund is a bit slow though, and should be a decent matchup.
I agree good players will hold stuff back in their hand, but that's why I'm running manlands and terra eternal. I have blockers that won't die, and if they overextend just a little, I've got the "gotcha!" card, giving me card advantage and not killing my creatures at the same time.

[browncoat]

I will admit the naya and bant decks that I play against regularly are probably not very typical. The naya deck is extended legal though resembles Ravnica block zoo with modern cards added in. The bant deck is basically last seasons bant deck with few new additions. No one in my playgroup has a walletslayer and anyone who did would be savagely beaten.

(2010-03-16 04:29 AM)Guiadan Wrote:  they tend to drop Baneslayers turn 4. I wouldn't call that slow, personally.

While not necessarily slow that is not aggro. All of my standard decks from last season had a consistent clock of 4-6 turns. The turn 4 baneslayer arrives too late to really matter. Chain reaction is far weaker in this deck as it does not work when your opponent is holding back creatures. The problem with getting RR is not as hard with your deck (I keep ignoring the rupture spires because I dislike them) but chain reaction does not necessarily sweep the board. I think replacing it with pyroclasm or volcanic fallout would be more solid as you can cascade into them. Also don't count on terra eternal as much simply because you have only one maindeck and it makes any manlands an opponent is running indestructible as well.