Super Extended

[Alex]

Over the past couple of weeks, you might have heard the rumours about a new format that's supposed to be launched at some point. It doesn't have a proper name, but some call it "Super Extended", others "Extended Plus", and "Overextended" is also floating around. Basically, it's meant to be an Eternal (non-rotating) format, with every block from Masques-onwards legal. I'm actually going to talk about this rumoured format in a more general sense on this week's podcast.

On Wednesday night at the club, I asked Sabina, our TO, if it might be possible to hold a "prototype" (i.e. mock) Super Extended tournament. She agreed in principle, but the question of the banned list soon came up and started a bit of a debate.

Sabina suggested that we could use the current Extended banned list, which seems fair. Tim, a friend of mine (who I seem to mention a lot on the podcast!) then suggested Dark Ritual should also be on the list. For reference, here's the current Extended banned list:

Aether Vial
Disciple of the Vault
Sensei's Divining Top
Skullclamp

So, I've decided to throw the question open on the forums. Would you go along with the current Extended list? Would you also add Dark Ritual, or another card? Could a card be taken off the list? (Someone suggested that maybe Disciple of the Vault could be such a card).

What do you think?

[browncoat]

As I mentioned in Arcticpenguins rant, I like the concept of overextended. The ability to have an eternal format that wizards can reprint staples would improve the tournament scene. I would ban tarmogoyf (I know it won't happen though). It seems like disciple could be unbanned though that would require testing. Unbanning top is another possibility but it depends on how powerful combo is vs. how long games drag on. Banning dark ritual seems a bit odd since it cripples storm combo decks. I doubt it would make mono-black unbeatable so it should be fine.

[sherretz]

I'm still trying to figure out how Dark Ritual is so overpowered. I use it in my Pauper decks and still get stomped regularly.

[Disturbedone0777]

Dark Ritual in decks that aren't restricted to commons can be very very nasty. Imagine having two of the four you have in your deck in your draw hand, you could play practically any spell. Second turn Noctornus if you draw just one of them.

[browncoat]

But then I respond with oust or similarly under-priced removal and you are down 3 cards. There is a reason All in Red is not dominating extended right now. A first turn deus of calamity is scary but when removal makes your play into massive card disadvantage, you are screwed. While black does get a good accelerant it comes with a price so I don't think it will break the game.

[Disturbedone0777]

Yeah there is a lot of very cheap removal. I was of course just listing creatures as examples though. There are spells and enchantments that likewise could be an issue. I wouldn't say that Dark Ritual is too OP, but it is a very strong card in a mono black deck.

[Alex]

I think it would be a good idea to follow what Wizards does. They very rarely "pre-ban" cards (I think Skullclamp might be the only example). Usually, they wait and see if something breaks the format.

If cards like Path to Exile or Oust didn't exist, Dark Ritual would be a lot scarier, but there's so much good removal around post-Masques. There's also Mindbreak Trap and a couple of other cards (the names escape me) that can stop storm combo.

I dunno... it'll be an interesting experiment for sure.

[yankeedave]

Hey Alex

If this happens, let me know! I would love to take part and I really hope they don't ban Dark Ritual!

[sherretz]

I like to look to the other formats for guidance. Dark Ritual isn't banned in Legacy or Vintage (is it legal in Extended? I don't know what happened to core sets between Fourth and M10). If it's legal in Extended, it's not seeing much play.


I actually like this decision as it's a good middle ground if it goes through. People keep crowing, "wait, we already have Extended!" but they forget that this new proposed format will not ever rotate. Extended lets people still play "recent" cards, while this format would cover the rest.

Then again, I keep hearing mixed reviews about Extended as a format, so I wouldn't be wholly surprised if they just made Extended equate to "Masques forward; no rotation."

[browncoat]

(2010-05-10 13:35 PM)sherretz Wrote:  I like to look to the other formats for guidance. Dark Ritual isn't banned in Legacy or Vintage (is it legal in Extended? I don't know what happened to core sets between Fourth and M10). If it's legal in Extended, it's not seeing much play.

The last printing of dark ritual in an actual set (not a packaged product) was mercadian masques so it has been out of extended for a while.

I think the main problem with changing extended from a 7 year rotation to masques forward is that people have preconceived notions of what extended is. A number of people play magic for a bit, quit and then come back after a few years. These players may be confused when extended is completely different from the rotation when they return to playing. While this does not seem like a major problem especially if overextended would destroy extended as a format, keeping a format name but dramatically changing the cards allowed is confusing, something Wizards does not want.

[sherretz]

Because M10 rules changes didn't do something similar?

[browncoat]

The m10 rule changes tweaked the rules for them to be more understandable. They didn't change how formats worked. While the annual core set does change how standard rotates slightly, it is still easy to understand. Compared to changing extended from a rotating format to a eternalish format is a pretty big change.

[Alex]

The provisional date and venue for the Super Extended tournament is Wednesday, June 9th at the Old Ship pub in Richmond, London. I should be able to confirm by this Saturday, and then I'll make a big noise about it everywhere.

Dark Ritual will not be banned. If combo gets out of hand then at least we'll know for next time (if there is a next time!). But I prefer for it to actually get out of hand, rather than pre-ban.