first:
-4 day of judgement
-4 intimidation bolt
-2 tuktuk grunts
-1 howling mine
Now the aggro player in me can calm down a little and stop bellowing about corruption of an archetype. These 11 cards are pointless in aggro as 9 of them don't help when you attack (or even worse, help your opponent), while the other two are overpriced.
Now add 4
lightning bolt. If you are going to continue to stay r/w (more on that in a minute) I would also add 4
burst lightning.
Kabira evangel could also have a place giving evasion to you creatures.
Why are you just r/w? In general I believe you need at least three colors to get good use out of allies. I think adding green could help a lot with the addition of
oran-rief surivalist and
harabaz druid. Blue also has some great cards such as
jwari shapeshifter and
umara raptor.
(2010-02-08 21:03 PM)browncoat Wrote: [ -> ]first:
-4 day of judgement
-4 intimidation bolt
-2 tuktuk grunts
-1 howling mine
Now the aggro player in me can calm down a little and stop bellowing about corruption of an archetype. These 11 cards are pointless in aggro as 9 of them don't help when you attack (or even worse, help your opponent), while the other two are overpriced.
Now add 4 lightning bolt. If you are going to continue to stay r/w (more on that in a minute) I would also add 4 burst lightning. Kabira evangel could also have a place giving evasion to you creatures.
The goal of the intimidation bolt was to add the effect of dissallowing the other player to block while I walk through. I could do the same using the protection from
Kabira evangel as it comes into play, I was shy on removal at that point so I tried to combine removal with the ability to be aggressive. I didn't think that was too bad. Day of Judgment I think I could replace with the much cheaper lightening bolt. That is a good call. I don't' know how something so simple slipped my mind. The Tuktuk grunts I think I'm going to replace with 2 more Kazull Warlords.
(2010-02-08 21:03 PM)browncoat Wrote: [ -> ]Why are you just r/w? In general I believe you need at least three colors to get good use out of allies. I think adding green could help a lot with the addition of oran-rief surivalist and harabaz druid. Blue also has some great cards such as jwari shapeshifter and umara raptor.
I can't think of what I would sub out to play in the third color, whether green or blue. I stick with the 60 cards (you know bible rule) when I build. I can't think of one of the creatures that I've chosen that I would want to take out. I could bail on the
ondu cleric and try to replace him and maybe the
highland berserker Take away the healing and the smaller guy, move into the cheap flier and the shapeshifter.
Thanks for the suggestions. Getting rid of the days is no big deal to me. It was more or less I have them (already paid for them) and want to use them. Thanks for the advice.
The warlord, berserker and blademaster can all be cut. The Warlord is a finisher and may be best as a two or three of. Beserker is not bad but is not the greatest. Blademaster is also not the greatest outside of a primarilly white deck as its WW cost can be a bit restrictive. To explain how the deck can be changed I will post my concept for an allies deck:
4
hadal freeblade
4
harabaz druid
4
oran-rief survivalist
4
jwari shapeshifter
4
umara raptor
3
kabira evangel
2
bala ged thief
4
aether tradewinds
4
path to exile
4
harrow
1 swamp
7 plains
8 forest
7 island
The plan of this deck it use early plays to get the pesky +1/+1 counter allies going and fix the manabase. Aether tradewinds is crazy as it allows you to recycle allies with come into play abilities and pump your beaters while disturbing their manabase early on or bouncing an annoying creature.
I have to agree with Browncoat about the number of colors. To really get the most out of an ally deck you need at least 3 colors. I personally would take 4 Lightning Bolt over Path to Exile simply because I would think it a better way to finish my opponent if they're low enough on life and I don't have enough allies left to finish it that way. In either case I think I'll try a few ally builds and see how they all work out.
I would consider adding Akoum Battlesinger and taking out Tuktuk Grunts. The main reason for this is that Tuktuk Grunts really won't come into the game fast enough with your current build to be of any great effect. When you look at the deck list, Tuktuk Grunts costs as much as Kazuul Warlord and doesn't have anywhere near the effect that the Minotaur Ally does on your other Allies. Additionally, I would agree with those have posted previously: a third color is a good option for this deck. I also agree with browncoat when he suggested taking out Day of Judgment. While this is a powerful card, it is expensive and on top of that a R/W aggro Ally deck would be best suited to leaving your creatures on the battlefield for as long as possible. However, it is possible to create a fast, aggressive R/W Ally deck that can be competitive without adding a third color. My suggestion is this:
4x Hada Freeblade
4x Akoum Battlesinger
4x Highland Berserker
4x Kabira Evangel
3x Kazuul Warlord
3x Talus Paladin
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Path to Exile
4x Burst Lightning
2x Journey to Nowhere
Plains-10
Mountain-10
Arid Mesa-4
In this format of the deck, you have several options, and even several ideal plays during your first and second turns. Obviously, you hope to pull out a Hada Freeblade on turn 1, which essentially to me is one of your best cards. Turn 2 gives you several options however. Either Akoum Battlesinger or Highland Berserker are ideal plays for this turn, and you will either swing with a 3/3 Hada Freeblade and a 2/1 Akoum Battlesinger on turn 2, or if you play Highland Berserker, you will swing as a 2/3 first striking Hada Freeblade. Either play is not at all bad for turn 2. Turn 3 leaves you several options as well. A second Akoum Battlesinger or Highland Bersker with a second Hada Freeblade would be excellent plays, making your first two creatures even more powerful. However, the ideal play in my mind is a turn 3 Kabira Evangel. Your creatures will gain protection from whatever color your opponent is running, allowing you to either swing at their life total or beat down their creatures while yours remain unharmed. As you can see, if you follow the pattern of creature play, it soon becomes ridiculous: your creatures will receive protection every turn once at least one Kabira Evangel is on the battlefield, and they will continue to get bigger and bigger. Lightning Bolt, Burst Lightning, Path to Exile, and Journey to Nowhere all provide another option if you're having difficulty removing creatures or if you want to do direct damage to a player. Additionally, if your opponent lasts long enough for you to pull out a Kazuul Warlord or Talus Paladin, you can watch your whole party grow huge and gain lifelink to boot.
If you want to add a third color, I would suggest green, as it provides powerful Ally options like Oran-Rief Survivalist, Harabaz Druid (mana-ramping), and Graypelt Hunter (trample). Additionally, if you prefer to burn your opponents out, you could try using Murasa Pyromancer instead of Kazuul Warlord. Or you could try adding copies of Kazandu Blademaster and not having as many Highland Berserkers to ensure that you have enough creatures that grow consistently with every new Ally. However, be careful with Kazandu Blademaster. Even in two-color decks, RR and WW creatures can be hard to pull out with the mana base you'll have.
Finally, the reason Ondu Cleric does not belong in this deck is very simple: Ondu Cleric does nothing but gain you life. While life gain is a nice advantage in any deck, life gain does not really change the game at all. In short, four of the cards in your deck do nothing but give you an instant life gain, and then sit stagnant on the battlefield. Sure, they may give you something to chump block with in a pinch, but all in all life gain doesn't equate to winning, especially with cards like Sorin Markov running around. Once these cards have been destroyed by your opponent, in terms of card advantage you will be four cards behind. Talus Paladin is a much better option because it gives all your creatures lifelink (and at the rate your Allies will grow, it will gain you much more life than what Ondu Cleric would provide), and the Paladin itself gets a +1/+1 counter every time an Ally hits the field. This is just a quick and dirty decklist I made up in my head, and could be subject to much improvement and thought. However, I hope everyone finds it useful.
(2010-02-16 19:17 PM)Dark Wolf Wrote: [ -> ]4x Hada Freeblade
4x Akoum Battlesinger
4x Highland Berserker
4x Kabira Evangel
3x Kazuul Warlord
3x Talus Paladin
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Path to Exile
4x Burst Lightning
2x Journey to Nowhere
Plains-10
Mountain-10
Arid Mesa-4
This deck really needs a few more one-drop allies (which don't exist). To function you must mulligan until you have a freeblade in your hand. The rest of the deck can also allow for some horrible draws (imagine getting stuck with your only creatures in your opening hand being an evangel, a paladin, and a warlord). This makes it a pretty bad aggro deck especially when you are barely matching other aggro decks with a good draw.
(2010-02-16 19:17 PM)Dark Wolf Wrote: [ -> ]If you want to add a third color, I would suggest green, as it provides powerful Ally options like Oran-Rief Survivalist, Harabaz Druid (mana-ramping), and Graypelt Hunter (trample). Additionally, if you prefer to burn your opponents out, you could try using Murasa Pyromancer instead of Kazuul Warlord. Or you could try adding copies of Kazandu Blademaster and not having as many Highland Berserkers to ensure that you have enough creatures that grow consistently with every new Ally. However, be careful with Kazandu Blademaster. Even in two-color decks, RR and WW creatures can be hard to pull out with the mana base you'll have.
Greypelt hunter, while a beast in limited, is not that great in constructed.
Murasa pyromancer has a pricey mana-cost and has a pretty weak effect (assuming that your opponent has removal, and if he doesn't then you should have won by then).
(2010-02-16 19:17 PM)Dark Wolf Wrote: [ -> ]Finally, the reason Ondu Cleric does not belong in this deck is very simple: Ondu Cleric does nothing but gain you life. While life gain is a nice advantage in any deck, life gain does not really change the game at all. In short, four of the cards in your deck do nothing but give you an instant life gain, and then sit stagnant on the battlefield. Sure, they may give you something to chump block with in a pinch, but all in all life gain doesn't equate to winning, especially with cards like Sorin Markov running around. Once these cards have been destroyed by your opponent, in terms of card advantage you will be four cards behind. Talus Paladin is a much better option because it gives all your creatures lifelink (and at the rate your Allies will grow, it will gain you much more life than what Ondu Cleric would provide), and the Paladin itself gets a +1/+1 counter every time an Ally hits the field. This is just a quick and dirty decklist I made up in my head, and could be subject to much improvement and thought. However, I hope everyone finds it useful.
Sorin Markov? Vampires is the only deck that would consider running him and they have so many better cards competing for the slot so you should not fear him. While I agree the cleric does not belong in an aggro deck, I think in a midrange deck it is pretty solid (and if it dies to removal it gained you life and took a hit that could have targeted a more useful ally). I am also not that impressed by
talus paladin (admittedly my only experience against it had it constantly tapped down due to permafrost trap).
I concur with you browncoat. The mana curve is absolutely dreadful in this deck! Thanks for pointing it out. I'm more of a mid-range player, and thus my attempts at making an aggro deck are likely to fall short. Do you think it would be better try R/W/G with cheaper things like
Oran-Rief Survivalist?
Not with allies. Wizards is being careful and has only printed 1 one-drop. The allies printed also do not lend themselves well to aggro especially with the amount of removal in standard (+1/+1 allies can find themselves quickly killed before they can do much damage). The deck I posted earlier has a more aggro-ish curve (though the number of 3-drops is a bit cluttered). But that deck is a midrange/control style build though it can win quickly if it does not face removal and gets to play turn 1 freeblade, turn 2 survivalist, and turn 3 raptor (followed by other allies that continue to buff the 3 beaters).
http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/stand...Ranks.html
Here is an interesting article about how to build decks with allies that do not revolve around using tons of them. The mono-white deck interests me as it only runs 19 allies and uses them as the core of the deck but adds a lot of support (though its price is a bit off as the path to exiles cost more than any of the rares). I'm not sure I agree with everything in the article (his opinion of harabaz druid and tuktuk scrapper as useless cards is strange). Otherwise it adds some new concepts to build around.
I'm getting a good use out of W/G allies..
(2010-02-08 21:03 PM)browncoat Wrote: [ -> ]first:
-4 day of judgement
-4 intimidation bolt
-2 tuktuk grunts
-1 howling mine
Now the aggro player in me can calm down a little and stop bellowing about corruption of an archetype. These 11 cards are pointless in aggro as 9 of them don't help when you attack (or even worse, help your opponent), while the other two are overpriced.
Now add 4 lightning bolt. If you are going to continue to stay r/w (more on that in a minute) I would also add 4 burst lightning. Kabira evangel could also have a place giving evasion to you creatures.
Why are you just r/w? In general I believe you need at least three colors to get good use out of allies. I think adding green could help a lot with the addition of oran-rief surivalist and harabaz druid. Blue also has some great cards such as jwari shapeshifter and umara raptor.